Crossovers

[lyore]

I've been thinking a bit about crossovers recently - writing them and reading them. Lucky you, I feel like sharing :)

I've seen crossovers get a bit of a bad rap, but I have to say I really like them* - I think it really gives the characters (and the author!) a chance to stretch their wings.


Consider when you have the observation of canon characters by characters of a difference canon. It gives the 'new eyes, new appreciation, new perspective' of an 'outsider POV' fic, but in this case it comes with an added bonus - because the observer isn't a cypher, their observations can shed just as much light on their characterisation as the characters they are observing.

And the same goes for character interactions - the way they respond to one another can through light on both characters, especially when you have a pair/group with strong similarities as well as distinct differences. Such interactions can make the differences and similarities in very apparent to the reader, without the author having to draw direct attention to it in the fic.

Plus, there's the fact that I love seeing the characters tossed out of their comfort zone, and I love seeing one set of characters I love meeting another set. Not to mention the technical challenges of getting the canon together in the first place - while it's easy(ish) in some cases (SG-1 get an alert about possible Goa'uld activity in a small town in California), it can be a lot harder to sell when one canon is set in, say, 21st Century earth and the other is in a galaxy far, far away (of course, sometimes this doesn't matter, depending on the fic).
*Done well - all of this applies to well done crossovers, of course. Done badly? I hate watching people mangle two sets of canon even more than I hate watching it done to one.

But that's just what I think - What about you?

[Poll #1090050]

Comments

[southoffebruary.livejournal.com]

Yay! Polls!!

I'm kind of anti-crossovers, because I have read so many *bad* ones and no good ones. For example, off the top of my head I remember a Buffy/XFiles crossover where Mulder was attracted to 16 year old Buffy and they screwed all across Sunnydale. Um, ew.

The only crossovers that are ok for me, are shows that are spin-offs to each other like SGA/SG1, Buffy/Angel, any of the Law & Order shows, things like that. Because usually the crossovers dont make sense otherwise.

[lyore.livejournal.com]

I love polls :)

I remember a Buffy/XFiles crossover where Mulder was attracted to 16 year old Buffy and they screwed all across Sunnydale.

Yeah, that's a definite 'Ew', right there. On one hand, I don't think it's really fair to judge any type of fic by it's worst offerings, although I know I'm guilty of doing the same thing (ship fic, anyone?). On the other hand, I think crossover fic is really easy to screw up, and when it's bad it's really bad.

That said, I still like it, 'cause in the hand of a good author, it can be brilliant :)

Because usually the crossovers dont make sense otherwise

That's one of the things I love about them, done well. When someone makes it make sense and I'm all... 'Wow'. 'Cause I tend to be a little obsessed when things don't make sense. *g*

(Oh, Oz icon! *hearts*)

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

I'm not against crossovers, but they don't appeal to me either as a reader or a writer. I think it has to do with why I read fanfic, and that's specifically to get more of what I like about a particular show. So if I like a particular character, I usually want to read about him exclusively--the other characters can be there, but a big, plotty adventure story or a focus on original characters doesn't appeal to me, so I won't read those stories--usually. *g* (There are always exceptions.)

I tend not to like crossovers in part because I seldom know both canons and also because I tend to like episode tags or missing scenes or something that feels like it could be a part of the show. I tend not to like wildly AU stories or stories that change canon drastically either. And again, there are always exceptions, it's just that from years of reading fic, I've learned what I like, so I'll always go for things I like first, and crossovers (or AUs) are at the bottom of my list. I'd have to be pretty bored to read a crossover, and I am almost never that bored. *g*

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Crossovers are very hit or miss for me. When they're done right I LOVE them, but I find them done not-right much more often.

I have to have vested interest in one canon. I used to say I have to know the second, but I recently loved a Sentinel/SG-1 crossover and the only thing I know about Sentinel are the names of the two characters.

I guess mostly I need the crossover to be believably possible, explained in a believable way, in character on both sides, and well written. I think my tolerance for them requires higher quality than for single-canon fic.

But, when they're done well, with that outsider perspective you mentioned and all, they are AWESOME.

[lyore.livejournal.com]

I think it has to do with why I read fanfic, and that's specifically to get more of what I like about a particular show.

See, that's interesting, cause it's the same reason I read fic - but for me, it means I tend towards long, plotty adventures as my first choice. Focused on my characters of choice, of course *g*

I tend not to like wildly AU stories or stories that change canon drastically either.

Have you found that most crossovers fall into this category? I guess because I put a heavy emphasis on 'could it happen?' when reading crossovers, I mostly remember those that (IMO) could slot into the canon without too much trouble. I guess this depends heavily on the two source texts...

I've learned what I like, so I'll always go for things I like first,

An entirely reasonable position *g*

Interesting thoughts, thanks!

[lyore.livejournal.com]

I guess mostly I need the crossover to be believably possible, explained in a believable way, in character on both sides, and well written. I think my tolerance for them requires higher quality than for single-canon fic.

YES. But then, that's my checklist for most fic *g* I think crossovers can be more challenging for the author to reach that quality, 'cause the author has to balance the demands of two sets of canon.

[vasher.livejournal.com]

I usually read crossovers if I know that the author's going to do a good job with writing it. Helps if I'm at least passingly familiar with the other series. Let's see... I think it can either go into an epic length story that tries its best to mesh together the two universes, or a short cracky/PWP/vignette type thing. I've found a really good House/24 that's in the former category some, er, steamy anime and game crossovers in the latter. Heh, Kingdom Hearts is one giant insane crossover in itself.

Seems pretty natural to try and combine favorite fandoms on the author's part, especially if there are characters from the two series that would get along (or not get along) in an entertaining manner.

Definitely a category that has much more potential for head-banging badness than some others. XD

[aizjanika.livejournal.com]

but for me, it means I tend towards long, plotty adventures as my first choice. Focused on my characters of choice, of course *g*

I should have specified what I like about the show. *g* For me it's the character stuff. I can overlook almost anything as far as the plot or story goes if the characterizations appeal to me and make sense. I tend not to care that much for the stories on a show like Stargate or Supernatural. I can revel in the cheesiness or ridiculousness of the stories, but it's the characters and the character moments that I love most. Without them, or if the characters are changed in a way that I don't like or that doesn't appeal to me, and I lose interest in the show.

I tend to find fanfic adventure stories to be a bit on the boring side, because they tend not to focus on the characters in a way that I'd like. As I said, though, there are always exceptions. I love a long, plotty fic without the adventure story if the plot focuses on the characters, and I can enjoy even adventure stories if they also focus on the characters.

I do find that most crossovers fall into the AU category--actually, othey are a step below AU stories on the "could this really happen" scale. *g* Also, I don't know why but I tend to really dislike any type of intrusion on the canon of my show by including the canon or characters of another--even if it's a show that I watch. I never even liked SG-1/Atlantis crossover fic with some exceptions.

I don't have a problem with any type of fic, though. I think people should write what they're inspired to write and read whatever they like. :-)

[lyore.livejournal.com]

Don't suppose you have a link to the House/24 one, do you? I have a weakness for long, plotty crossovers, but you don't see too many of them around.

Seems pretty natural to try and combine favorite fandoms on the author's part, especially if there are characters from the two series that would get along (or not get along) in an entertaining manner.

I was starting to wonder if this was a rare reaction, from some of the reactions to crossovers (not here, but in general). I'm glad other people think it is a natural response to the text as well!

[vasher.livejournal.com]

http://swordstorm.livejournal.com/9778.html

^ Link to chapter 1-2 of the crossover (currently up to 9, I think, further up the lj)... it's actually House/24/The Stand, but I'm only at all familiar with House, which is the main focus.

I'm a sucker for good character interactions, author-ily contrived or not, and just love to consider what similar characters from disparate canons would make of each other, even if it's just briefly crossing paths. Dunno if you've read The Martian Chronicles, but there's this one short story where a human from the contemporary time and a Martian from the past briefly meet a crossroads, pause to consider each other, then trudge away to their respective destinations. Similar feeling, IMHO. :)

Anyways, crossovers are fairly niche for the readers, I'd hazard, because the odds are raised that they either won't be familiar enough with one of the fandoms to make sense of it or don't care for one set of the written characters.

[lyore.livejournal.com]

I love a long, plotty fic without the adventure story if the plot focuses on the characters, and I can enjoy even adventure stories if they also focus on the characters.

My ideal fic is a long, plotty adventure which is character driven - sadly, such fics are few and far between.

I tend to really dislike any type of intrusion on the canon of my show by including the canon or characters of another

I can definitely understand that. On a similar note, it really bothers me if there is a lack of balance between the two sources - for instance, if the characters suddenly turn up in another's canon and start dominating the story. It can be almost like a Mary Sue using the characters from another canon.

I think people should write what they're inspired to write and read whatever they like. :-)

Absolutely!

[lyore.livejournal.com]

Oh, thanks.

just love to consider what similar characters from disparate canons would make of each other, even if it's just briefly crossing paths.

Ditto. I haven't read The Martian Chronicles, I might have to.

crossovers are fairly niche for the readers,

Yeah. In the great Venn diagram of potential readers, I suspect we are drawing more from the 'AND' overlap than the larger 'OR' section. But I've been pleasantly surprised how many people said they only need to have a passing familiarity with the second series - it gives me hope that my crossover might be read after all! *g*

[sunnyskywalker]

I've only read a few crossovers, and it looks like I haven't been burned by horrible ones like some people have. They weren't all great, but not bad.

I really like the idea of shifting characters out of their comfort zones, and even more of using different 'verses and characters to comment on each other. For instance, both Firefly and BSG (at least the new one - I haven't seen the original yet) have that used-universe feel, and both involve groups of people more or less stuck on a ship together on the run, the Operative's ideas remind me a lot of some of the Cylons' ideas, and they both play on the idea that imperfection is an essential part of being human - but they've also got some interesting differences. It would be fun to put them together.

Now, those two could probably cross over fairly easily. We don't know exactly what condition Earth is in in BSG, so it could be mysteriously destroyed after sending colonies to another system like in Firefly. I'm more interested in crossovers where they universes seem like they could coexist like that. (Though I shouldn't talk, since the one crossover I've written is SW/HP, and they have really incompatible magic systems. But at least they don't actually physically cross over?) Unless it's crackfic wherein all the fictional Chosen Ones have a big fight over who's the real One, of course :D

[lyore.livejournal.com]

A Firefly/BSG crossover could be very interesting indeed.

I'm more interested in crossovers where they universes seem like they could coexist like that.

I don't know - in some ways, yes, because they are more believable, but in other ways I love seeing the innovative ways people manage to get them together.

SW/HP crossover, huh? Got a link? I'm in the same boat - currently in the middle of writing a Star Wars/Supernatural crossover, which don't really have a lot in common in terms of the universes mythology. Not that that is stopping me *g*

[gelliaclodiana]

I really love crossovers too, for many of the reasons you mention here. I especially love the combination of the outsider pov with a situation where all the characters are out of their depths.

I think it's hard to generalize about the audience for crossovers; I know that there are a lot of people who don't really care for them, but there are also people who seek them out -- and in my experience of these readers, they only need to know one of the canons in play to enjoy the story. So one tends to draw people in from two fandoms, and of course it's a wonderful way to pimp people into your shiny new (or old!) fandom.

Obviously, everyone prefers their stories to be well-written -- but this is as true of one-shot, single-fandom stories involving our OTPs as it is for crossovers! It goes without saying.

[celisnebula.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom...

Funny this should come up now, cause I'm this month's crossover recc over at crack_broom and I was just lamenting the fact that there aren't a whole lot of well written crossovers I could recommend this month (not that there aren't a lot of them, it's just you can't rec one that's been rec before).

I like the idea of crossovers if they're well done, I like the idea of stretching the characters of two universes to fit into one.

I've read some lovely Doctor Who/Firefly crossovers, some excellent Doctor Who/Harry Potter ones (especially since the Doctor pimped book 7 last season), some lovely Indiana Jones/Harry Potter crossovers, and a lot of great Star Gate/Harry Potter crossovers. I think if an author writes well and is familiar with both universes, it's only natural to want to combine what you love - heck I've always loved when Marvel and DC get their crossovers on, and TV shows too, like when CSI and Without A Trace crossed over last week.

All I ask is that they be believable and that they be well written.

[elf]

Here from metafandom.

I adore crossovers... when they're done well. (Of course, I adore slash when it's done well, too, and I don't normally put the qualifier on it.) I think of it as filking an entire universe. Or two at once. I'm all about the poly action.

I keep waiting for someone to write a long, plotty Dr. Who/Firefly crossover. And an X-Files/Harry Potter crossover, where Mulder's on vacation in the UK and runs into these weird people wearing dark robes and waving sticks around and he winds up in bed with Snape. And a nice Trek/Blake's 7 crossover (which has to involve some kind of wormhole, 'cos they can't just bump into each other)--the Blake's 7 crew don't respond well to anyone claiming to represent "the Federation."

Some fandoms cross well into anything; others don't. LotR is hard to cross; Star Trek is easy. (Although LotR could cross with Jordan's Wheel of Time series. Maybe.)

[celisnebula.livejournal.com]

Butting in... have you read honorh's "Out of Joint" fanfiction? It's a Brilliant Doctor Who/Firefly story, you can find it here:
http://honorh.livejournal.com/286024.html

It's still a work in progress, but she's almost done with it.

[dragonbat2006.livejournal.com]

I've written two crossovers, both of which have been decently received. I think part of what might have made them work was

1) I only had one character from Fandom A interract with the cast of Fandom B, AND

2) Kept the rules of one fandom dominant.

So I did one JLA/Animaniacs cross where Chicken Boo becomes a Green Lantern--BUT the League was pretty much written as though it had always existed in the Animaniacs universe. And the thing with Chicke Boo is that his canon stories always follow a strict formulat. Plug the JLA characters in (with Batman as the lone voice crying out that Boo's a giant chicken) and it works.

My other one was a Batman/Lemony Snicket, in which the Joker applies for a job at a coffee shop and gets interviewed by the Baudelaires. I will admit that THAT one was pure crack inspired by 1) a "real" help wanted ad in the window of a Second Cup coffee shop in Toronto that started 'How would you like to be responsible for creating hundreds of smiles today?' and 2) the fact that I'd just seen the ASOUE movie the night before I wrote the story and had the characters on my brain. In that one, Snicketverse rules applied.

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

I love crossovers. I love writing them and I love reading ones that are well done. I prefer them when I know both sources, and when they focus on the characters I'm interested in (and obviously, when I consider them well-written), but I find them fascinating to write because of the challenge of coming up with ways of either making two disparate canons mesh or of getting a character from one 'verse to the other.

here via metafandom

[amaresu]

I love crossovers. I love them lots, but there's a lot of really bad ones out there. I think this is because people don't realize that you really need to think out a crossover before even attempting it. Good questions to ask:

Are the universes compatible?
Why am I writing this?
Do I really need all of these characters?

I think those are the big three questions that any writer should ask themselves before sitting down to write. Once you've worked out those issues everything else will usually come together. But really as much as a Buffy/Supernatural crossover may make you happy, there are universe incompatibility issues that really need to be addressed. Even if it's just to yourself. It shows in the writing whether or not these things have been thought out.

Same with the reason for writing. Do you just think it would be funny for Character A and Character X to meet? Do you want to hook up those characters? Interesting take on the situation from their respective points of view? What ever the reason think it through. Again, it shows.

The biggest problem with crossovers tends to be the desire to shove as many people into them as possible. Thus you have have the people lost in a broom closet for half the story and suddenly coming back and needing to handwave away where they were. Writers shouldn't feel like they need to include everybody, cause they don't. Less is more in the crossover sense.

Sometimes I think everyone thinking about writing a crossover should read the Star Trek book Planet X which is a crossover with X-Men. For real. It does just about everything wrong you can do wrong in a crossover. Great learning material. And I'll stop now.

[amaresu]

I have this weird fascination with Harry Potter crossovers. I can't stand the books, but I will read just about anything crossed with HP if I know the canon.

I've often found myself reading the 34th chapter of this god awful piece and not knowing how I got there. I wished other fandoms had as many 30+ chapter fics as HP does.


That had nothing to do with anything. Sorry.

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

Whee, metafandom and polls!

I love crossovers; I love writing them, I love putting characters with similar worldviews and different worlds next to each other and watching them eyeroll and go "I know." Also, I love watching one set of characters solve a problem from a different kind of universe.

Really, the cool thing comes for me from the thought of "How would Character A respond to Universe B's Conceit X?"

I also like fusion universes, trying to make a character work in another universe with backstory consistent with that universe. Like an AU, but with already-existing source material. It's a challenge, and the reveals are fun.

here via metafandom

[thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com]

I love seeing how two worlds react to being shoved together like that. Basically, I love crack, and therefore non-solemn crossovers are entirely my thing. Mind you, I don't read much fanfic, and I don't write any, but that's one of the things I look for when I do.

Serious crossovers are generally too much. I'm supposed to suspend the appropriate sets of disbeliefs for not one but two canons? Then again, serious fic isn't really an interest of mine.

I'm fond of the crack in shows as well. If quality isn't going to happen, make the lack of quality awesomely outrageous.

[elf]

No! *happy squee* Running off to read....